Cornish P-2 guts

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Re: Cornish P-2 guts

Postby mictester » 13 Mar 2010, 20:19

MoonWatcher wrote:Actually, David has repeatedly been on the record as saying that there isn't anything particularly stellar about anything in his rig. He has even mentioned that if he needed to reproduce it, he could walk into the typical music store with a modest list, and buy mainly off-the-shelf gear.


He's the one that used to break the knobs off his Colorsound junk and epoxy the pot shafts to prevent them being turned! :shock:
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Re: Cornish P-2 guts

Postby Skreddy » 14 Mar 2010, 19:39

mictester wrote:
soulsonic wrote:
mictester wrote:I'm now determined to build something like a BMP, and gold-plate a diecast box for it, and sell is for £2500 at auction. It's got to be done - there'll be some clueless jerk who'll believe that the gold plating makes a difference to the way it sounds.....

I've thought about doing this for awhile now. :lol:


A friend of mine has an electro-plating works, and just for the fun of it, we tin-plated some diecast boxes. They looked amazing - with a mirror finish! My nephew got three pedals built in these cases, and everyone who sees them asks "Where did you get those?". Next time I see him, I'll photograph them so you can see them.


Didn't know tin was that shiny. Off topic, but I had a buddy with a metal plating place (he was the singer in a metal band I was in for a while in the 80's), and I love the look of nickel plating! While we were using his shop as a practice space, I had him gold plate my micstand! Still have that thing.
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Re: Cornish P-2 guts

Postby DougH » 16 Mar 2010, 18:07

I was always under the impression that the appeal of the Cornish stuff was low noise, consistency, and ruggedness. It was intended for a clientele that was dealing with a completely different set of problems than most- people who play big stadiums and arenas. Now the "ruggedness" aspect may be a false premise, based on mictester's comments. But I never thought that it was intended to appeal to the average bedroom or bar gig musician based on mojo or fancy paint jobs, or even "tone". I thought it was always understood that they were existing circuits rehoused and integrated with his buffer circuitry and/or his custom pedal boards. It doesn't seem like the kind of thing that is going to be appealing to most people who hang out here (or even places like the gear page).

Not sure why Cornish threads always stir up such controversy. If you think they are overpriced and not that interesting, you're probably right- and you certainly don't need one. But if you play regular 50,000+ gigs and are vitally concerned about equipment not crapping out mid-song, it's probably worth it to you to pay the price. Doesn't seem like a big deal either way to me.
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Re: Cornish P-2 guts

Postby ryanuk » 16 Mar 2010, 18:33

DougH wrote:I was always under the impression that the appeal of the Cornish stuff was low noise, consistency, and ruggedness. It was intended for a clientele that was dealing with a completely different set of problems than most- people who play big stadiums and arenas. Now the "ruggedness" aspect may be a false premise, based on mictester's comments. But I never thought that it was intended to appeal to the average bedroom or bar gig musician based on mojo or fancy paint jobs, or even "tone". I thought it was always understood that they were existing circuits rehoused and integrated with his buffer circuitry and/or his custom pedal boards. It doesn't seem like the kind of thing that is going to be appealing to most people who hang out here (or even places like the gear page).

Not sure why Cornish threads always stir up such controversy. If you think they are overpriced and not that interesting, you're probably right- and you certainly don't need one. But if you play regular 50,000+ gigs and are vitally concerned about equipment not crapping out mid-song, it's probably worth it to you to pay the price. Doesn't seem like a big deal either way to me.


Doug_H - exactly what I was trying to say, execpt I think you put it better!

ryanuk wrote: Clearly these units are aimed at touring musicians who demand a more rugged unit with a classic sound. If you arent a pro, and you arent touring 300 days a year, then a regular Big Muff (vintage or otherwise) should be fine. Take the Edge for example - hes got a regular BMP sitting on top of his racks.


It seems that main argument against Mr Cornish is ruggedisation - the pedals are nothing special in terms of design but they are supposed to be flawless in terms of longevity.

Looking at the pics of the P-2, I cant see how anyone can claim that its not carefully wired. I know that some examples of failures have been referenced but can we really expect EVERY SINGLE pedal to be completely flawless. Mr and Mrs Cornish are human after all.

With regard to the coloursound references - I assume you mean that these have been rehoused and sold with the pots "stuck" literally. I can only presume that it was a certain sound that the customer would have wanted, no?

I still dont think we can bash Mr Cornish - he's selling to a niche market. If I were touring constantly, I know I would prefer one of his units or a rehoused/rewired stock BMP compared with a stock BMP thats been wired by god knows who...

Edit: That's my 2p and I stick to it whilst begridging no-one who disagrees. The spirit of debate rules!! Vairety is the spice of life :thumbsup
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Re: Cornish P-2 guts

Postby mictester » 16 Mar 2010, 20:55

ryanuk wrote:With regard to the coloursound references - I assume you mean that these have been rehoused and sold with the pots "stuck" literally. I can only presume that it was a certain sound that the customer would have wanted, no?


No. They're still in the original Colorsound box. The only two changes to them were that the battery clips had been removed and an external power socket fitted (with an internal "idiot diode" for polarity protection). The controls were set, broken off, and stuck with Araldite to prevent them being adjusted. Some of them had changed bypass switches. He had a number of them, and we always used to moan at him in the studio about how noisy the damn things were.

He also has some "Cornish" boxes, and they're just as noisy as the Colorsound stuff. They're also nowhere near as rugged as some of the other gear I've seen lately.

I saw one series of boxes (I think it was boutique French) that was a specially made diecast box, and had a "well" towards the back that contained the controls, so they were recessed, and couldn't be touched by a foot. They also had the most robust momentary action switches I've seen - similar to the "Vandal proof" stainless steel ones I've used in some outdoor projects. Taking these things apart, I found that the box walls were almost 5mm thick! There was also a waterproofing ring around the rim of the lid in the box. The boards inside were thick fibreglass with big tracks, and the layouts such that all the components fitted flat to the boards. All the off-board wiring was secured properly, and there was an option for the use of NiMH batteries so that the unit never needed to be opened, just recharged. LEDs were flat-top types, and were mounted so that they were flush to the case, inside the well, and glued from the inside to prevent movement and to maintain the box seal. This was were I got the idea to build beer-proof effects! The "Cornish" stuff looked like junk by comparison, and cost (apparently) about three times as much...
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Re: Cornish P-2 guts

Postby Oliphaunt » 17 Mar 2010, 00:07

I have read this and the other recent Cornish threads, but am still confused. Is there a confirmed schematic for his buffer?
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Re: Cornish P-2 guts

Postby soulsonic » 17 Mar 2010, 04:46

Oliphaunt wrote:I have read this and the other recent Cornish threads, but am still confused. Is there a confirmed schematic for his buffer?

Yes. And both the ones that I've seen have been simple BJT bootstrapped followers.
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Re: Cornish P-2 guts

Postby mictester » 17 Mar 2010, 06:46

soulsonic wrote:
Oliphaunt wrote:I have read this and the other recent Cornish threads, but am still confused. Is there a confirmed schematic for his buffer?

Yes. And both the ones that I've seen have been simple BJT bootstrapped followers.


.... and the two I had here recently had 2N3819 buffers. He likes lots of supply rail decoupling too!
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Re: Cornish P-2 guts

Postby silverface » 17 Mar 2010, 09:15

mictester wrote:No. They're still in the original Colorsound box. The only two changes to them were that the battery clips had been removed and an external power socket fitted (with an internal "idiot diode" for polarity protection). The controls were set, broken off, and stuck with Araldite to prevent them being adjusted. Some of them had changed bypass switches. He had a number of them, and we always used to moan at him in the studio about how noisy the damn things were.
...


Exactly who are you referring to, and where in the studio with?
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Re: Cornish P-2 guts

Postby ryanuk » 17 Mar 2010, 10:02

silverface wrote:
mictester wrote:No. They're still in the original Colorsound box. The only two changes to them were that the battery clips had been removed and an external power socket fitted (with an internal "idiot diode" for polarity protection). The controls were set, broken off, and stuck with Araldite to prevent them being adjusted. Some of them had changed bypass switches. He had a number of them, and we always used to moan at him in the studio about how noisy the damn things were.
...


Exactly who are you referring to, and where in the studio with?


I believe he was referring to Mr Gilmour..

mictester wrote:
MoonWatcher wrote:Actually, David has repeatedly been on the record as saying that there isn't anything particularly stellar about anything in his rig. He has even mentioned that if he needed to reproduce it, he could walk into the typical music store with a modest list, and buy mainly off-the-shelf gear.


He's the one that used to break the knobs off his Colorsound junk and epoxy the pot shafts to prevent them being turned!
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Re: Cornish P-2 guts

Postby DougH » 17 Mar 2010, 14:22

mictester wrote:He also has some "Cornish" boxes, and they're just as noisy as the Colorsound stuff. They're also nowhere near as rugged as some of the other gear I've seen lately.


Cornish's original schtick was the integrated pedal board, using existing commercial circuits that were favorites of the particular customer. I'm not sure why he moved into building individual pedals, other than to trade on his name and cash in on the pedal craziness that's been going on the last 10 years. I've never seen his work so I can't comment on that. I will say that, based on his experience, I'd guess he feels his quality is sufficient. And his name still commands respect, in general.

I would also say he's probably outmoded to some extent in today's boutique environment. He made his rep back when he was one of the very few doing this work. Now everyone and his brother is doing it, and there is fierce competition. But there's also a lot of gilding the lily that goes on in this world too- and the French product you mentioned seems to lean in that direction, to me.

In the end, the prices and popularity of his products are due to the power of his name. And so far, that hasn't suffered. We'll see what happens as time goes on.
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Re: Cornish P-2 guts

Postby RnFR » 17 Mar 2010, 14:55

what is this "French product" you guys are speaking of :?:
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Re: Cornish P-2 guts

Postby Oliphaunt » 17 Mar 2010, 15:46

mictester wrote:
soulsonic wrote:
Oliphaunt wrote:I have read this and the other recent Cornish threads, but am still confused. Is there a confirmed schematic for his buffer?

Yes. And both the ones that I've seen have been simple BJT bootstrapped followers.


.... and the two I had here recently had 2N3819 buffers. He likes lots of supply rail decoupling too!


Can you point me towards these schematics? Thanks.
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Re: Cornish P-2 guts

Postby Jarno » 17 Mar 2010, 16:06

mictester wrote:I saw one series of boxes (I think it was boutique French) that was a specially made diecast box, and had a "well" towards the back that contained the controls, so they were recessed, and couldn't be touched by a foot. They also had the most robust momentary action switches I've seen - similar to the "Vandal proof" stainless steel ones I've used in some outdoor projects. Taking these things apart, I found that the box walls were almost 5mm thick! There was also a waterproofing ring around the rim of the lid in the box. The boards inside were thick fibreglass with big tracks, and the layouts such that all the components fitted flat to the boards. All the off-board wiring was secured properly, and there was an option for the use of NiMH batteries so that the unit never needed to be opened, just recharged. LEDs were flat-top types, and were mounted so that they were flush to the case, inside the well, and glued from the inside to prevent movement and to maintain the box seal. This was were I got the idea to build beer-proof effects! The "Cornish" stuff looked like junk by comparison, and cost (apparently) about three times as much...


Sounds like a winning concept! The wall thickness does seem a bit overkill even with zinc alloys for die casting.
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Re: Cornish P-2 guts

Postby mictester » 17 Mar 2010, 17:58

RnFR wrote:what is this "French product" you guys are speaking of :?:


It was a VERY high quality set of boxes with specially made diecast cases. They were really heavy, and obviously made to last. They're definitely "boutique" and I've only ever seen them once, but they are the best built pedals I've ever seen. I phoned some friends in France earlier today, to try to find out who makes them, and as soon as I find out, I'll let you all know. They have recessed controls,and big stainless steel momentary switches for on / bypass, and the diecasting they use has really thick walls and there's a rubber sealing ring between the box and lid. They are where I got the idea for beer-proof pedals from!
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Re: Cornish P-2 guts

Postby mictester » 17 Mar 2010, 17:59

biffa wrote:Is it the 'fuse blower' from jaques stompboxes?
Not much on that one in the way of knobs and stuff
(or 'tubeblower',I can't remember which?)


Nope. MUCH better than a Jaques box!
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Re: Cornish P-2 guts

Postby RnFR » 17 Mar 2010, 18:14

mictester wrote:
biffa wrote:Is it the 'fuse blower' from jaques stompboxes?
Not much on that one in the way of knobs and stuff
(or 'tubeblower',I can't remember which?)


Nope. MUCH better than a Jaques box!

yeah, that handmade jaques box was pretty shoddy, and the mass produced ones are your basic consumer based Boss type stuff.

looking forward to seeing these things- they sound like quite a piece of work.
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Re: Cornish P-2 guts

Postby DougH » 17 Mar 2010, 18:17

I always thought an old-fashioned automobile dimmer switch would make a great stompswitch:

Image
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Re: Cornish P-2 guts

Postby brightboy » 17 Mar 2010, 18:27

DougH wrote:I always thought an old-fashioned automobile dimmer switch would make a great stompswitch:

Image


+1

I had that same idea about 25 years ago but have never pursued it.

Time to hit the automotive junk yard.

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Re: Cornish P-2 guts

Postby mictester » 20 Mar 2010, 16:17

biffa wrote:This boutique french stuff sounds bon
Very tough 'n all,and clever
But what does it sound like?
No-ones yet mentioned it's tone
Can it be loosely compared to anything we already know of?


Yes - there's a "dual fuzz" that sounds like a Big Muff Pi on one side and a Rat on the other. There's a Chorus, which is pretty much in CE2 territory, an Overdrive which is pretty much a Tubescreamer, and a Phaser that sounded like the old MXR Phase 100 to me. There might be others, but I don't know. The Chorus and Phaser sounded pretty good. The distortions were pretty generic-sounding.
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